Comments on: Traditional Teachers Send the Wrong Message to Students http://www.brilliant-insane.com/2015/02/traditional-teachers-send-the-wrong-message-to-students.html Education on the Edge Thu, 23 May 2019 03:52:49 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.10 By: Mark Barnes http://www.brilliant-insane.com/2015/02/traditional-teachers-send-the-wrong-message-to-students.html#comment-2998 Tue, 24 Feb 2015 15:27:28 +0000 http://69.195.124.205/~brillil0/2014/03/traditional-teachers-send-the-wrong-message-to-students.html#comment-2998 Thanks Brianne for an honest, heartfelt response. I cover your how-to questions in my books, featured on the right menu here at Brilliant or Insane. While my books contain the deeper dive, my short answer is that teachers should always do what they know is best for kids, which is not worksheets, workbooks and traditional homework. I worked with similar constraints, but I taught around them, not to them. For example, when vocabulary workbooks were delivered to my room, I distributed them to students, asked them to put their names on them and said I’d house them for future use. Then, I stored them in a closet. I took words from the books and created my own activities or simply shared the words with kids and had them complete discovery activities and other projects around the words. When teaching and learning is done right, kids will learn. Best of all, enthusiastic independent learners become very good at standardized tests. While I don’t care about the test scores, admin does, so in the end, we all win. Thanks for reading and contributing. I hope you’ll be a regular here at B or I.
Mark Barnes recently posted…The Not-So-Common Common CoreMy Profile

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By: Brianne http://www.brilliant-insane.com/2015/02/traditional-teachers-send-the-wrong-message-to-students.html#comment-2997 Tue, 24 Feb 2015 15:06:25 +0000 http://69.195.124.205/~brillil0/2014/03/traditional-teachers-send-the-wrong-message-to-students.html#comment-2997 I agree that both can be used, but integration is a tricky thing to master without having to come down more heavily on one side or the other. For example, you mention vocabulary lessons – my son’s 2nd grade teacher “has” to have the kids do vocab worksheet assignments and journals because it follows a curriculum/assessment loop the school insists upon. However, rather than quizzes, she assigned each child to create a visual art project representing a vocabulary word, with certain required components (part of speech, etc). The project was by far more worthwhile as a learning tool, but the kids spend vastly more time over the course of the year doing the “mandatory” busy work.
And this is a GOOD teacher, in my estimation, who works hard to include open-ended project based learning throughout the year and adapts her methods to the kids in her class rather than do things the same way every year. But even she struggles to find the balance. The question isn’t whether she sends the wrong message when she’s using “traditional” methods. The question is really, how do we support her and all other teachers in following their instincts towards better learning models, and support schools in ridding themselves of these rigid “assessment criteria” that weigh kids and teachers down?

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By: Mark Barnes http://www.brilliant-insane.com/2015/02/traditional-teachers-send-the-wrong-message-to-students.html#comment-2996 Tue, 24 Feb 2015 14:29:32 +0000 http://69.195.124.205/~brillil0/2014/03/traditional-teachers-send-the-wrong-message-to-students.html#comment-2996 Thanks Cynthia, I didn’t intend to appear defensive. Sorry if you or anyone else interpreted my comment that way. I just wanted the audience to understand that I taught in a student-centered class for many years. You are right, though. Students transition from traditional to progressive practice much better over time. Thanks so much for clarifying. Much appreciated.
Mark Barnes recently posted…The Not-So-Common Common CoreMy Profile

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By: Cynthia http://www.brilliant-insane.com/2015/02/traditional-teachers-send-the-wrong-message-to-students.html#comment-2995 Tue, 24 Feb 2015 13:42:14 +0000 http://69.195.124.205/~brillil0/2014/03/traditional-teachers-send-the-wrong-message-to-students.html#comment-2995 I think you may have misunderstood something Alexa said/meant and reacted defensively. She said, ” One year in one class is not enough to change the way a child learns or wants to learn.” I don’t believe that she was suggesting that you only did it for a year. It seems she was saying that students only experience it with you for one class for one year and then move on to the next grade and teacher who probably isn’t a ROLE teacher.

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By: Mark Barnes http://www.brilliant-insane.com/2015/02/traditional-teachers-send-the-wrong-message-to-students.html#comment-2994 Tue, 24 Feb 2015 11:51:50 +0000 http://69.195.124.205/~brillil0/2014/03/traditional-teachers-send-the-wrong-message-to-students.html#comment-2994 Hey Lisa, I’m fine with a balanced approach to education. I am wondering if your students might enjoy learning vocabulary more, if you integrated the words into their writing: “Use three words from our list correctly in your blog post.” I have found that kids love working this way, and their vocab grows exponentially. Thanks for contributing here at B or I. Please come back.
Mark Barnes recently posted…7 Reasons Teachers Should Stop Grading Their Students ForeverMy Profile

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By: Mark Barnes http://www.brilliant-insane.com/2015/02/traditional-teachers-send-the-wrong-message-to-students.html#comment-2993 Tue, 24 Feb 2015 11:49:25 +0000 http://69.195.124.205/~brillil0/2014/03/traditional-teachers-send-the-wrong-message-to-students.html#comment-2993 Hey Rebecca, thanks for this detailed reply and the research you supply. Please understand that I am not against out of class work. I know that in a ROLE classroom students will work at home, because they are engaged in amazing yearlong projects and want to continue to hone their work. The key is that working at home is optional and never graded. Voluntary reading is also a fabulous home activity, and when encouraged in school, most students will voluntarily read at home. Thanks again for contributing. I hope you’ll be a regular here at B or I.
Mark Barnes recently posted…7 Reasons Teachers Should Stop Grading Their Students ForeverMy Profile

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By: Mark Barnes http://www.brilliant-insane.com/2015/02/traditional-teachers-send-the-wrong-message-to-students.html#comment-2991 Tue, 24 Feb 2015 11:42:58 +0000 http://69.195.124.205/~brillil0/2014/03/traditional-teachers-send-the-wrong-message-to-students.html#comment-2991 Hey Sarah, I appreciate your thoughtful, detailed and well-researched response. I’m happy to see that so many people at your university are spending valuable time researching best practices in teaching and learning. Thanks for reading. I hope you’ll be a regular here at B or I.
Mark Barnes recently posted…The Not-So-Common Common CoreMy Profile

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By: Sarah Koucheravy http://www.brilliant-insane.com/2015/02/traditional-teachers-send-the-wrong-message-to-students.html#comment-2990 Tue, 24 Feb 2015 04:00:11 +0000 http://69.195.124.205/~brillil0/2014/03/traditional-teachers-send-the-wrong-message-to-students.html#comment-2990 I am not surprised by the fact that 78 percent of students were pleased with the ROLE classroom style. Apart from the fact that it is hard to find a student who enjoys the stress that comes with normal summative assessments, it is also important to look specifically at how incentives and motivation affect the success of recall. Sean Kang and Harold Pashler’s study: Is the benefit of retrieval practice modulated by motivation?- hypothesized that when incentivized to learn material, the type of strategy they used to learn it might be less important. In order to test this they conducted three different experiments where they changed the incentive level (money for a question correct) and monitored how incentives and retrieval practices affected recall. The results showed that retrieval practices did play a part in the success of recall, however the incentive did not interact with the results. This study is helpful in the argument that rewarding students with money (but this can be equated to grades or points) does not improve recall. Secondly, a study executed by Duke et al: It’s Not How Much; It’s How. Characteristics of Practice Behavior and Retention of Performance Skills brought to light how the knowledge of an assessment, and the following action of repeated studying does not lead to success. In this study seventeen undergraduates at The University of Texas were given an extremely hard piece of music to learn and were told they should practice it until they felt prepared for a retention test the following day. The practice strategies executed by each student was observed and compared to their performance on the test. Results showed that none of the following variables affected performance: practice time, number of total practice trials, and number of complete practice trials. Rather, results determined that the strategies employed during practice-specifically if participants participated in “thoughtful practice” rather than simply repetition- was what made the difference. I believe this study further supports your argument that the traditional teaching style with quizzes and tests simply encourages repetitious studying rather than truly passionate work with material. When, in reality, it is this thoughtful work that yields the best outcomes. Lastly, I would like to make a connection between your ROLE classroom style and the idea of metacognition. I think a major focus when students do a lot of group work and verbal discussion is that they are better able to assess themselves on what they know. As opposed to when kids are preparing for a multiple-choice exam where they may scan their notes and develop a false sense of knowledge on the topic. I applaud the fact that you can successfully create this true learning atmosphere in your classroom.

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